full vs partial reliving flashbacks and variation in intrusions

[brokenpony]

it seems that some people have the full reliving cinematic immersive type flashbacks (you're for a moment back in the war because of a loud noise that triggered you, you're having consensual sex and your partner is suddenly your rapist), while others tend to have more partial sensory flashbacks but still relive the hyperarousal fight/flight panic. and then others have more partial flashbacks, but experience hypoarousal/dissociation in response. some may re-experience differently at different times? or for different events? similarly, some relive their exact memories in nightmares, in detail, while others only have "trauma content" that cycles through.

so it seems that intrusive reliving has a lot of variation in presentation.

i'm really curious what could create these differences in how the trauma is relived from person to person, if anyone has ever studied that. and if dissociative amnesia can play a part in it. for example i have the dissociative type. and i relive things partially, and my trauma nightmares are surrealist hellscapes that definitely didn't happen. i have very poor memory storage of my traumas, they seem to be fragmented/corrupted/encrypted files of a sort, and most of it is erased and known only 'factually.' the memories i do have are all also in third person. and i wonder if this plays a part in how i experience my intrusions as fragmented rather than wholly immersive. but i just don't know (probably this isn't well studied).

i also experience a lot of disconnection from triggering events and my triggered responses. so for example if someone touches me and triggers me, in the moment i will be "calm" (dissociated, overmodulated), but then some time later, away from the threat, i may have a bad panic response that is clearly related. i also feel like i get a lot of partial reliving without even understanding what triggers it. i feel suddenly overcome with panic and fear for "no reason," or "go away" (zone out/leave) for "no reason," and don't understand the link to the past my brain is making. it is likely something in the environment is triggering it that i am not aware of, because i do not consciously hold the memory, but my brain still does subconsciously. i also experience somatic intrusions but don't know to which perpetrator they belong.

does anyone have any thoughts on this? i was also wondering if anyone here has moved from having only partial/fragmented/fractured to having at least some fully immersive flashbacks (in real life or nightmares) at any point in treatment and why you think that might have happened.

 

[Sideways]

if anyone has ever studied that.

So many people!

I’d recommend about the first third of Bessel van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps The Score. He breaks down a lot of what we know about memory storage and retrieval, and how that happens in folks with ptsd. He manages to do it in a pretty readable format.

The short version: traumatic memory isn’t a single movie reel like Hollywood would have you believe. Smells get stored in one part of the brain, the visuals get stored somewhere else, the timeline goes in another spot - and the part of our brain that usually pulls all that together in a single coherent story is offline.

If you stick with it, he’s also got some stuff in there about what we know about dreams (not a whole lot), and the different way people with ptsd respond to reliving experiences (which is often creepy calm, rather than wild panic).

 

[Friday]

I’m in the fairly rare category of having full on nightmare whilst awake all-senses movie/hollywood-style flashbacks… and? Single sense flashbacks. Very little in between.

Why? No idea.

 

[brokenpony]

So many people!

I’d recommend about the first third of Bessel van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps The Score. He breaks down a lot of what we know about memory storage and retrieval, and how that happens in folks with ptsd. He manages to do it in a pretty readable format.

The short version: traumatic memory isn’t a single movie reel like Hollywood would have you believe. Smells get stored in one part of the brain, the visuals get stored somewhere else, the timeline goes in another spot - and the part of our brain that usually pulls all that together in a single coherent story is offline.

If you stick with it, he’s also got some stuff in there about what we know about dreams (not a whole lot), and the different way people with ptsd respond to reliving experiences (which is often creepy calm, rather than wild panic).

thanks! i did read that book a few years or so ago but i've forgotten it all so maybe it is time for a reread. i remember finding it pretty activating at the time and not knowing quite why, but i understand more now.

i do usually respond with the creepy numb calm, except in one kind of situation that is an acute/isolated trauma event. with that event triggered, i respond in a way of hyperarousal. this is also an event i have a halfway decent "visual" memory of that happened when i was 9. it is what i consider my least emotionally significant trauma because it is not abuse-related and didn't have a human actor. an accident of a sort that meets crit A. so i've found it interesting that i respond in this more stereotypical ptsd FFF way when it is triggered, almost as if the outside observer would think it is the worst thing that ever happened to me, when in terms of harm done, relatively speaking it is not actually so bad.

 

[brokenpony]

I’m in the fairly RARE category of having full on nightmare whilst awake all-senses movie/hollywood-style flashbacks… and? Single sense flashbacks. Very little in between.

Why? No idea.

oh that is interesting! it seems that you have a lot of different types of traumas, does that seem to make a difference in what kind of FB you get? or is it more like, associated with the level of overall stress you're under during a period? or just seemingly randomized?

 

[Friday]

oh that is interesting! it seems that you have a lot of different types of traumas, does that seem to make a difference in what kind of FB you get? or is it more like, associated with the level of overall stress you're under during a period? or just seemingly randomized?

Not that I’ve noticed?

Single sense flashbacks last hours/days before I (usually) realize that’s what’s going on, full immersion are literally flashes. Fractions of a second. A moment. Many moments. There’s too much cognitive dissonance for them to last. It’s like worlds colliding.

Single sense flashbacks insert themselves reeeeeally easily over the top of actual reality.

 

[WorldWanderer]

Mine, generally are full on, we've taken to calling them dissociative flashbacks because of the disconnect between then and now, not sure how common or uncommon that is. Every sense is involved. I don't know if it makes a difference but i have hyperphantasia, which means my minds eye is top of the range, super clear and crisp.
If i don't catch them soon enough they become really immersive and i get utterly lost in them. I completely lose the present and it takes a while to get me back.
Other times i can get a feeling, sound, image that just stays. So if it's like an audio clip of what happened then it plays on a loop, if it's a mental photo, then it lingers in my minds eye, if it's a feeling (cold, i was hypothermic at the time) then nothing i do will warm me up, i could be in a sauna and still be cold to the touch.

 

[Freddyt]

I’m in the fairly RARE category of having full on nightmare whilst awake all-senses movie/hollywood-style flashbacks

I'm on the other end of the spectrum in some ways....I never realized what a flashback was for me until I had done a couple years therapy. There were no visuals - just a set of sensations....

(which is often creepy calm, rather than wild panic).

Yup, so deep in survival mode it doesn't hit until survival mode shuts down after its all over......

In ALL this stuff, getting the "window of tolerance" wedged open a little more and a little more (Stress Cup) helps with warning of when that stuff is coming. Work hard on it and as you get better at managing that - you begin to see what really triggers those events.